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Beyond The Pale

Beyond the Pale is a subversively thoughtful exploration of God, faith, life and culture hosted by former pastors and missionaries Steve & Tammy Hackman. It's a podcast for that person who finds more fulfilment in the journey than in the destination and doesn't mind coloring outside the lines a bit! Join us each week as we travel on pilgrimage together. We'll ask questions, question answers, and open a bottle of wine with you as we do. (Not a particularly good wine mind you, just one Tammy says we can afford)
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Beyond the Pale is a subversively funny exploration of God, faith, church, and culture hosted by former pastors and missionaries Steve & Tammy Hackman. It's a podcast for that person who wants to know God but sometimes wonders why their favorite moment of a Sunday service is when it's finally over. Join us each week as we journey on pilgrimmage together. We'll ask questions, question answers, and open a bottle of wine with you as we do. (Not a particularly good wine mind you, just one Tammy says we can afford)

Jul 6, 2022

Author & speaker Keith Giles returns to discuss with Steve & Tammy his new book Sola Mysterium: Celebrating the Beautiful Uncertainty of Everything. If God is a Being that transcends imagination, how we can learn to embrace mystery of Christ.  Along the way, Keith shares how Charismatics can understand their experiences, re-wiring your mind for "gratitude", and why it's often scientists, and not theologians, who convey a sense of wonder of the Universe.

Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles!

Episode Index

1:16 - Intro with Steve & Tammy

11:30 - That time when we “know” everything

12:20 - Intro to “Sola Mysterium”

15:59 - What to do with our “charismatic” experiences?

22:44 - “Everyone is hypnotised on a daily basis”

28:30 - Blurring the line between natural & supernatural

34:44 - Why quantum physics scientists are starting to sound like theologians

42:02 - Why “Sola Mysterium”

43: 56 - Can we “rewire” our brain toward gratitude?

52:59 - J.J. Abrams & his Mystery Box

57:40 - The wonder found in Creation

Find out more about Keith's books, classes, and content here: https://www.bk2sq1.com/aboutme

Mar 20, 2022

Keith Giles returns to the podcast to discuss with Steve & Tammy his final book in the seven part "un" series Jesus Unarmed: How the Prince of Peace Disarms our Violence.  Along the way Keith also explains where American Christians get their fascination with "redemptive violence", why Evangelicals should re-think their "End Times" theology, and what God really meant when he said we should "be Holy as he is Holy".

Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles

Episode Index

1:51 - Intro discussion with Steve and Tammy

12:31 - Conversation with Keith begins

16:02 - “All my heroes carried guns”

23:10 - Did Jesus ever use violence?

31:04 - It’s hard to introduce Jesus to Christians

44:18 - Re thinking the “End Times”

49:19 - How to really be “Holy as God is Holy”

 

Feb 1, 2022

Brian Zahnd returns to Beyond the Pale to discuss his new book When Everything Is On Fire and how despite a season of doubt and deconstruction a stronger, more confident faith is possible when it is grounded in the beauty of Christ. Along the way Brian discusses pilgrimage, contemplation,  and how his journey on the Camino de Santiago inspired the book.

Go Beyond the Pale with Brian Zahnd


Episode Index


2:06 - Intro with Steve & Tammy

11:06 - Conversation with Brian begins

13:04 - Brian and Peri share about about pilgrimage

24:26 - Talking all things Camino de Santiago

30:00 - Brian discusses his new book “When Everything is on Fire”

34:46 - Deconstructing and renovating our faith

37:25 - Beauty will Save the World

51:50 - Notre Dame is on Fire

1:02:34 - Christians of the future

 

Jan 3, 2022

Simon Rammaci has been active in sharing with Christians that to follow Christ is to be a peacemaker.  He discusses with Beyond the Pale his work with various groups including the Christian Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament to help promote non-violent alternatives in today's increasingly volatile world. Along the way Simon shares a bit of his faith journey which led him from his homeland of Italy to working with various churches in the U.K.

Go Beyond the Pale with Simon Ramacci!

Episode Index

1:20 - Intro with Steve

3:34 - Conversation with Simon Ramacci begins

4:03 - From Italy to the U.K.

9:33 - Orthopraxy vs. Orthodoxy

16:45 - Discovering a theology of non-violence

36:57 - Helping Christians to see the Christ Way of non-violence

Jan 3, 2022

Simon Rammaci has been active in sharing with Christians that to follow Christ is to be a peacemaker.  He discusses with Beyond the Pale his work with various groups including the Christian Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament to help promote non-violent alternatives in today's increasingly volatile world. Along the way Simon shares a bit of his faith journey which led him from his homeland of Italy to working with various churches in the U.K.

Go Beyond the Pale with Simon Ramacci!

Episode Index

1:20 - Intro with Steve

3:34 - Conversation with Simon Ramacci begins

4:03 - From Italy to the U.K.

9:33 - Orthopraxy vs. Orthodoxy

16:45 - Discovering a theology of non-violence

36:57 - Helping Christians to see the Christ Way of non-violence

Nov 17, 2021

University Professor and former bassist for the Christian punk band "Undercover" Ojo Taylor returns to discuss a recent blog post he wrote as he turned 65.

Getting older ain't easy but Ojo reflects on the benefits that ageing brings including wisdom, perspective, and an understanding of what's really important in life. And of course with his very public transition from Christian musician to atheism we go on frequent tangents discussing God, faith, the nature of belief, and morality without religion...among other things!

Go Beyond the Pale with Ojo Taylor!

5:23 - Conversation begins

10:23 - When "friends" unfriend over belief differences

15:57 - Discussing ageing, mortality, and stages of life

16:32 - The benefits of therapy

24:48 - Comparing ourselves to others

25:52 - With age, "Time" becomes our currency

44:56 - No longer trying to "save the world for Jesus"

53:10 - Discussing morality without religion

Oct 23, 2021

Hannah Land is an Occupational Therapist and administrator for the online community Progressing Church.  She joins Beyond the Pale to discuss the how theology can be employed to address the personal suffering and trauma experienced by many.  Along the way she opens up about her own experience with sexual abuse as well as sharing some of the life giving understanding of Christ that have helped her and others on their journey.  We also touch on spiritual deconstruction and the process of engaging with others.

Go Beyond the Pale with Hannah Land!

Episode Index

1:08 - Intro with Steve & Tammy

9:00 - Conversation with Hannah begins

10:47 - What is trauma theology?

18:00 - Hannah shares her personal experience

20:39 - Jesus & the trauma he experienced

32:41 - Spiritual Deconstruction- Is it just a "white people" thing?

42:40 - When is it OK to provoke other people?


Oct 6, 2021

The release of Denis Villeneuve's much anticipated adaption of Frank Herbert's "Dune" has drawn the inevitable comparisons to the David Lynch's 1984 adaption. On today's special episode I sit down with movie critic James Marsh to do a deep dive into who really did it better; Dune 1984 or Dune 2021

Episode Index

3:20 - Paul Atreides (Kyle Maclachlan vs. Timothy Chalamet)

8:24- Do we have a bias for the 1984 Dune film

10:40 - Duke Leto (Jurgen Prochnow vs. Oscar Issacs)

15:80- Lady Jessica (Francesca Annis vs. Rebecca Ferguson)

17:11- Baron Harkonnen (Kenneth McMillan vs. Stellan Skarsgard

26:16- Supporting Cast 1984 vs Supporting Cast 2021

35:29- Faithfulness to the book 1984 vs 2021

42:28- Film Score (Toto vs. Hans Zimmer)

46:00- Final comparisons Dune 1984 vs Dune 2021

 

Aug 31, 2021

Steve Barker joined us back in Episode 41 to talk about Re-Thinking Church and now comes to my rescue to help spare me of the boredom of a mandated 14 days isolation in a Hong Kong hotel room.  Along the way we discuss the COVID situation, my confirmation in the Anglican church, and making the Christian faith practical in the world around us.

Go Beyond the Pale with Steve Barker!

Episode Index

1:23 - Intro with Steve & Tammy 

8:37 - Conversation with Steve Barker begins

9:00 - The effects of quarantine isolation

15:15 - When do we just learn to live with Covid?

22:00 - Traveling Internationally during Covid is expensive

29:32 - Joining the Anglican church

38:19 - Musing on the need for "church"

48:26 - Practical applications of Christianity vs. "Finding God's Will for my Life"

Jun 29, 2021

Our Camino Tales series continues as we sit down with our pilgrim friend Diarmuid O'Reiley to discuss some of our shared adventures together on the Camino de Santiago.  Along the way Diarmuid shares a bit of his faith journey, the Lord's Prayer in Gaelic, as well as some political thoughts including an Irish perspective on America's fascination with Donald Trump.  My son Gabriel who walked our 2015 with Diarmuid also joins us in the interview.

Go Beyond the Pale with Diarmuid O'Reilly!

Episode Guide

1:10- (Intro) Steve in Covid quarantine

8:57 - Conversation begins & Guinness is opened

10:40-  Talking Camino De Santiago

22:05-  The Lord’s Prayer in Gaelic

23:01-  Going from Catholic to Charismatic

32:31-  An Irish perspective on Donald Trump

44:20-  When the truth loses it’s currency

49:32-  Reminiscing Camino times with Diarmuid

50:35-  Taking Communion on the Camino de Santiago

1:01:01: Pilgrim friends on the Camino

Apr 25, 2021

Keith Giles returns to Beyond the Pale to discuss his new book Jesus Unforsaken in which he argues the real Good News of Jesus has been replaced in much of today's church with a toxic message originating with John Calvin in the 1500s.  Keith explains why its crucial to return to the historic Christ-centered view of the cross that sets people free from sin and unveils a God of love who would rather die than live without us.

Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles!

Episode Index:

1:34- Intro with Steve

5:02- Conversation with Keith begins

8:06- Catching up with Keith since our last podcast together

12:53- What is "atonement" and why it's important

22:21- "To realise God is NOT a monster"


32:12- Alisa Childers and "progressive Christians"

33:56- Discussing a recent history of Christian "boogymen"

37:37- Labels and how followers of Jesus might identify themselves

42:26- Peace Catalyst podcast and building bridges with the Muslim community

52:45- How to choose the path that leads to peace with others

Apr 20, 2021

South China Morning Post and RTHK Radio 3 movie critic James Marsh sits down with Steve for their annual Academy Awards predictions.  Along the way we discuss the the nominees in the major categories, who we think WILL win vs. who SHOULD win, and why Brian Cox played a better Hannibal Lector than Anthony Hopkins.

Go Beyond the Pale with James Marsh!

 

Episode Index:


1:13- Steve’s Intro

4:28- Interview begins / Small Talk

10:14- Best Actress in a Supporting Role

21:02- Best Actor in a Supporting Role

31:05- Best Actress in a Leading Role

38:10- Best Actor in a Lead Role

41:44 - (Tangent) Anthony Hopkins vs. Brian Cox as Hannibal Lector

46:44 - Best Actor discussion resumes

54:28- Best Director

1:10:39 - Best Picture

 

Apr 1, 2021

On today's episode Steve sits down with two of his good friends who are nominal Trump voters to help better understand why Christians seem fascinated with conspiracy theories and why they tend to fuel them rather than extinguish them.  Along the way we discuss Donald Trump, the Epoch Times, and how Christians can be conditioned into toxic patterns.

Episode Index:

2:17- Intro with Steve

12:16- Was Portland destroyed by Black Lives Matter?

14:10- What does the "main stream media" report on?

21:35- What's on the horizon in "conspiracy land"?

33:24- Refusing a peaceful transfer of power brings violence

41:38- The trusty Epoch Times?

51:50- The habit to defend our Christian "tribe"

55:24- Why Christians struggle to believe Biden can do good

1:05:40- What we think about God matters

Mar 8, 2021

David Morgan joins us to discuss University of Chicago Political Science professor Eric Oliver's new book "Enchanted America: How Intuition & Reason Divide Our Politics".  Along the way David helps explain why many Americans are increasingly embracing bizarre conspiracy theories in an attempt to make sense of a complicated and changing world.

Go Beyond the Pale with David Morgan!

Episode Index:

1:25- Intro with Steve

7:07- Conversation with David begins

9:40- Why Americans are not divided by ideology but by thinking styles

17:00- Why the brain creates mental shortcuts to explain the world

28:28- Can you be a rationalist & believe in the Bible?

34:44- How people respond when they feel judged

47:30- Fragile masculinity leads to even more bizarre behaviour

57:28- Conspiracy theories are a reaction to fear

 

 

Feb 14, 2021

Filmmakers David & Kathi Peters sit down with Steve & Tammy to discuss their new documentary Postcards from Babylon which takes aim at the growing Christian Nationalism within American Evangelicalism.  Along the way they share about the impact of Donald Trump on the church, filming Brian & Peri Zahnd while on the Camino de Santiago, and the film's timely message of the Hope still to be found in embracing the Way Jesus proclaimed.

Go Beyond the Pale with David & Kathi Peters!

Episode Index:

1:38 - Intro with Steve & Tammy

10:35 - Conversation with David & Kathi begins

11:06- Growing up in the centre of Evangelical Christianity

20:29 - “In my house you couldn’t be a Christian and a Democrat”

31:12 - The “Postcards from Babylon” documentary

34:46 - Filming with Brian & Peri Zahnd on the Camino de Santiago

45:01- Tammy shares how the film moved her to tears

50:16- Filming Walter Brueggemann

54:55- Postcards from Babylon reminds the viewer there is hope

Feb 1, 2021

Pilgrim Bruce Ayling sits down with Steve to chat about their 2015 journey on the Camino de Santiago.  Along the way Bruce shares how his pilgrimage in Spain helped him to understand his Christian faith in a deeper way.

Go Beyond the Pale with Bruce Ayling! 

Episode index

1:40- Intro with Steve & Tammy

7:40- Conversation with Bruce begins

13:33- Learning to see God as a Father

26:44 - Doing the Camino in segments

30:33- Highlight of Bruce's Camino de Santiago

40:04- Future "bucket list" pilgrimages

 

Jan 18, 2021

Author Paul Ellis returns to talk about his new book "The Silent Queen" and why the church needs women to find their voice.  Along the way Paul shares historically how we got to this place of sanctioned gender discrimination in the church and what God's original plan was and can still be.

Go Beyond the Pale with Paul Ellis

Episode Index:

1:14 - Intro with Steve & Tammy

10:30 - Discussion with Paul begins

15:45 - Background to "The Silent Queen"

24:20- How Aristotle and Plato's sexist ideas infected the early church

27:25 - We think we're not sexist, but we are

38:15 - Tammy explains why women remain silent in the church

48:30 Paul explains why we can often support sex discrimination in the church wrongly believing it's God's plan

Jan 3, 2021

On today's episode Steve has a conversation an old friend, Steve Bowens, on issues surrounding race issues in America and specifically the Black Lives Matter movement   Along the way Steve, who is an African-American educator from Colorado, also shares how his Christian faith has shaped him not only in his approach to race relations but in all areas of his life's journey.

Go Beyond the Pale with Steve Bowens

Episode Index

1:35 - Intro with Steve & Tammy

12:24 - Conversation with Steve Bowens begins

18:35 - Steve shares his Christian faith journey

27:10 - When the church gets partisan

35:24 - Discussing Black Lives Matter

50:00 - Positive ways forward in race relations

Nov 14, 2020

Dave Griffiths and Rob Grayson return to Beyond the Pale to discuss what a healthy deconstruction and eventual reconstruction in faith might look like.  Along the way we discuss Creeds, politics, racism, gender inequality, and why Christianity seems the one area where its OK to NOT grow up!

Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Rob Grayson & Dave Griffiths!

Episode Index:

1:20-  Introduction with Steve & Tammy

5:25- Conversation begins

12:05- Race & Gender in 2020

14:46- Defining modernity and “post”- modernity

22:59- Do Creeds create a static world view?

33:45- Detaching our faith from politics

45:38- Is what you believe proven by how you live?

1:02:00- When Christians learn to grow up

Oct 2, 2020

My brother Andrew returns during a hot elections season to talk about the two subjects you aren't suppose to talk about in polite conversation; politics and religion. 

Along the way we discuss abortion, nationalism, and spell Trump holds over many American Christians.

Get Ready To Go Beyond The Pale with Andrew Hackman!

Sep 13, 2020

Steve was interviewed on Hong Kong's Radio 3 "Morning Brew" show to discuss his 1,100 mile Via Francigena pilgrimage and the upcoming memoir chronicling the journey!  

Aug 14, 2020

Actor Jason Tobin who stars in the hit TV show Warrior sits down with Steve & Tammy to share his acting journey; the highs, the lows, the frustrations, the lucky breaks, and the perseverance that helped get him to where he is now.

Along the way Jason shares what it was like to grow up in Hong Kong, the power of a teacher to inspire, his love of Story, and even our mutual desire to see Hong Kong's airport renamed Bruce Lee International.

Go Beyond the Pale with Jason Tobin!

 

Episode Index:

8:14: Conversation with Jason begins

8:36- Stories from the set of the TV series Warrior

26:40: The Bruce Lee connection to Warrior

28:18: Working with The Fast & The Furious director Justin Lin

32:29: Growing up in Hong Kong

34:12- The power of an inspiring teacher

39:12- Moving to Los Angeles at 18

44:00- Starting at the bottom: Being an "Extra"

52:52- When your dreams imprison you

54:30- Love of martial arts

1:00:50- Becoming a filmmaker

1:12:13- Jason's belief in the power of story

 

Jul 22, 2020

Long time friend Kit Tso shares a meal with Steve & Tammy and with the help of a little Scotch and Irish whiskey discuss faith, humanity, God, and the advantages of bringing "reason" into one's spiritual journey.

Along the way Kit shares some funny anecdotes of riding a motorcycle from London to Belfast!

Go Beyond the Pale with Kit Tso!

Episode Index:

3:40 Conversation with Kit starts

11:32  Driving a motorcycle to Belfast

25:04  What do we really believe?

38:46 Processing Faith

43:00  Circular or linear spiritual path?

53:00 Applying reason in faith

1:00:20  Connecting faith to real life

Jul 1, 2020

Gary Brightman is a Hong Kong based writer and filmmaker who shares his story of turning some of the dreams into realities. Dreams like moving to Hong Kong, attending film school, making documentaries, and finally opening Vibe, the coolest used book and vinyl record store in the city.

Go Beyond the Pale with Gary Brightman!

Episode Index:

1:33- (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss staycation in Hong Kong

8:28- Conversation with Gary Brightman begins

15:00- Gary is “bit” by the Hong Kong bug

19:42- Paying the bills vs. following your dream

21:08 - Going to film school

28:56- Opening a book and music store

31:02- “Vibe” as a community space

Jun 13, 2020

Vernon Pitout is an entrepreneur and business coach who has been a friend of Steve & Tammy for many years. On today's episode they reminisce on their spiritual journeys, discuss the pros and cons of leaders with a vision, and explore some of the challenges the church faces in the 21st century.

Go Beyond the Pale with Vernon Pitout!

Episode Index:

1:30- (Intro) Steve & Tammy reminisce over the church they started 25 years ago as well as how to deal with the crazy of a polarised world.

21:24- Conversation with Vernon begins

24:48- Doing Good in Church but questions arise

35:38- Thoughts on Worship

43:16- God deals with everyone individually

50:53- Understanding real Freedom

1:04:04- The Pros and Cons of Visionary Leadership

 

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