Beyond The Pale

Beyond the Pale is a subversively thoughtful exploration of God, faith, life and culture hosted by former pastors and missionaries Steve & Tammy Hackman. It's a podcast for that person who finds more fulfilment in the journey than in the destination and doesn't mind coloring outside the lines a bit! Join us each week as we travel on pilgrimage together. We'll ask questions, question answers, and open a bottle of wine with you as we do. (Not a particularly good wine mind you, just one Tammy says we can afford)
RSS Feed Subscribe in Apple Podcasts






All Episodes
Now displaying: Page 1

Beyond the Pale is a subversively funny exploration of God, faith, church, and culture hosted by former pastors and missionaries Steve & Tammy Hackman. It's a podcast for that person who wants to know God but sometimes wonders why their favorite moment of a Sunday service is when it's finally over. Join us each week as we journey on pilgrimmage together. We'll ask questions, question answers, and open a bottle of wine with you as we do. (Not a particularly good wine mind you, just one Tammy says we can afford)

Oct 6, 2021

The release of Denis Villeneuve's much anticipated adaption of Frank Herbert's "Dune" has drawn the inevitable comparisons to the David Lynch's 1984 adaption. On today's special episode I sit down with movie critic James Marsh to do a deep dive into who really did it better; Dune 1984 or Dune 2021

Episode Index

3:20 - Paul Atreides (Kyle Maclachlan vs. Timothy Chalamet)

8:24- Do we have a bias for the 1984 Dune film

10:40 - Duke Leto (Jurgen Prochnow vs. Oscar Issacs)

15:80- Lady Jessica (Francesca Annis vs. Rebecca Ferguson)

17:11- Baron Harkonnen (Kenneth McMillan vs. Stellan Skarsgard

26:16- Supporting Cast 1984 vs Supporting Cast 2021

35:29- Faithfulness to the book 1984 vs 2021

42:28- Film Score (Toto vs. Hans Zimmer)

46:00- Final comparisons Dune 1984 vs Dune 2021


Aug 31, 2021

Steve Barker joined us back in Episode 41 to talk about Re-Thinking Church and now comes to my rescue to help spare me of the boredom of a mandated 14 days isolation in a Hong Kong hotel room.  Along the way we discuss the COVID situation, my confirmation in the Anglican church, and making the Christian faith practical in the world around us.

Go Beyond the Pale with Steve Barker!

Episode Index

1:23 - Intro with Steve & Tammy 

8:37 - Conversation with Steve Barker begins

9:00 - The effects of quarantine isolation

15:15 - When do we just learn to live with Covid?

22:00 - Traveling Internationally during Covid is expensive

29:32 - Joining the Anglican church

38:19 - Musing on the need for "church"

48:26 - Practical applications of Christianity vs. "Finding God's Will for my Life"

Jun 29, 2021

Our Camino Tales series continues as we sit down with our pilgrim friend Diarmuid O'Reiley to discuss some of our shared adventures together on the Camino de Santiago.  Along the way Diarmuid shares a bit of his faith journey, the Lord's Prayer in Gaelic, as well as some political thoughts including an Irish perspective on America's fascination with Donald Trump.  My son Gabriel who walked our 2015 with Diarmuid also joins us in the interview.

Go Beyond the Pale with Diarmuid O'Reilly!

Episode Guide

1:10- (Intro) Steve in Covid quarantine

8:57 - Conversation begins & Guinness is opened

10:40-  Talking Camino De Santiago

22:05-  The Lord’s Prayer in Gaelic

23:01-  Going from Catholic to Charismatic

32:31-  An Irish perspective on Donald Trump

44:20-  When the truth loses it’s currency

49:32-  Reminiscing Camino times with Diarmuid

50:35-  Taking Communion on the Camino de Santiago

1:01:01: Pilgrim friends on the Camino

Apr 25, 2021

Keith Giles returns to Beyond the Pale to discuss his new book Jesus Unforsaken in which he argues the real Good News of Jesus has been replaced in much of today's church with a toxic message originating with John Calvin in the 1500s.  Keith explains why its crucial to return to the historic Christ-centered view of the cross that sets people free from sin and unveils a God of love who would rather die than live without us.

Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles!

Episode Index:

1:34- Intro with Steve

5:02- Conversation with Keith begins

8:06- Catching up with Keith since our last podcast together

12:53- What is "atonement" and why it's important

22:21- "To realise God is NOT a monster"

32:12- Alisa Childers and "progressive Christians"

33:56- Discussing a recent history of Christian "boogymen"

37:37- Labels and how followers of Jesus might identify themselves

42:26- Peace Catalyst podcast and building bridges with the Muslim community

52:45- How to choose the path that leads to peace with others

Apr 20, 2021

South China Morning Post and RTHK Radio 3 movie critic James Marsh sits down with Steve for their annual Academy Awards predictions.  Along the way we discuss the the nominees in the major categories, who we think WILL win vs. who SHOULD win, and why Brian Cox played a better Hannibal Lector than Anthony Hopkins.

Go Beyond the Pale with James Marsh!


Episode Index:

1:13- Steve’s Intro

4:28- Interview begins / Small Talk

10:14- Best Actress in a Supporting Role

21:02- Best Actor in a Supporting Role

31:05- Best Actress in a Leading Role

38:10- Best Actor in a Lead Role

41:44 - (Tangent) Anthony Hopkins vs. Brian Cox as Hannibal Lector

46:44 - Best Actor discussion resumes

54:28- Best Director

1:10:39 - Best Picture


Apr 1, 2021

On today's episode Steve sits down with two of his good friends who are nominal Trump voters to help better understand why Christians seem fascinated with conspiracy theories and why they tend to fuel them rather than extinguish them.  Along the way we discuss Donald Trump, the Epoch Times, and how Christians can be conditioned into toxic patterns.

Episode Index:

2:17- Intro with Steve

12:16- Was Portland destroyed by Black Lives Matter?

14:10- What does the "main stream media" report on?

21:35- What's on the horizon in "conspiracy land"?

33:24- Refusing a peaceful transfer of power brings violence

41:38- The trusty Epoch Times?

51:50- The habit to defend our Christian "tribe"

55:24- Why Christians struggle to believe Biden can do good

1:05:40- What we think about God matters

Mar 8, 2021

David Morgan joins us to discuss University of Chicago Political Science professor Eric Oliver's new book "Enchanted America: How Intuition & Reason Divide Our Politics".  Along the way David helps explain why many Americans are increasingly embracing bizarre conspiracy theories in an attempt to make sense of a complicated and changing world.

Go Beyond the Pale with David Morgan!

Episode Index:

1:25- Intro with Steve

7:07- Conversation with David begins

9:40- Why Americans are not divided by ideology but by thinking styles

17:00- Why the brain creates mental shortcuts to explain the world

28:28- Can you be a rationalist & believe in the Bible?

34:44- How people respond when they feel judged

47:30- Fragile masculinity leads to even more bizarre behaviour

57:28- Conspiracy theories are a reaction to fear



Feb 14, 2021

Filmmakers David & Kathi Peters sit down with Steve & Tammy to discuss their new documentary Postcards from Babylon which takes aim at the growing Christian Nationalism within American Evangelicalism.  Along the way they share about the impact of Donald Trump on the church, filming Brian & Peri Zahnd while on the Camino de Santiago, and the film's timely message of the Hope still to be found in embracing the Way Jesus proclaimed.

Go Beyond the Pale with David & Kathi Peters!

Episode Index:

1:38 - Intro with Steve & Tammy

10:35 - Conversation with David & Kathi begins

11:06- Growing up in the centre of Evangelical Christianity

20:29 - “In my house you couldn’t be a Christian and a Democrat”

31:12 - The “Postcards from Babylon” documentary

34:46 - Filming with Brian & Peri Zahnd on the Camino de Santiago

45:01- Tammy shares how the film moved her to tears

50:16- Filming Walter Brueggemann

54:55- Postcards from Babylon reminds the viewer there is hope

Feb 1, 2021

Pilgrim Bruce Ayling sits down with Steve to chat about their 2015 journey on the Camino de Santiago.  Along the way Bruce shares how his pilgrimage in Spain helped him to understand his Christian faith in a deeper way.

Go Beyond the Pale with Bruce Ayling! 

Episode index

1:40- Intro with Steve & Tammy

7:40- Conversation with Bruce begins

13:33- Learning to see God as a Father

26:44 - Doing the Camino in segments

30:33- Highlight of Bruce's Camino de Santiago

40:04- Future "bucket list" pilgrimages


Jan 18, 2021

Author Paul Ellis returns to talk about his new book "The Silent Queen" and why the church needs women to find their voice.  Along the way Paul shares historically how we got to this place of sanctioned gender discrimination in the church and what God's original plan was and can still be.

Go Beyond the Pale with Paul Ellis

Episode Index:

1:14 - Intro with Steve & Tammy

10:30 - Discussion with Paul begins

15:45 - Background to "The Silent Queen"

24:20- How Aristotle and Plato's sexist ideas infected the early church

27:25 - We think we're not sexist, but we are

38:15 - Tammy explains why women remain silent in the church

48:30 Paul explains why we can often support sex discrimination in the church wrongly believing it's God's plan

Jan 3, 2021

On today's episode Steve has a conversation an old friend, Steve Bowens, on issues surrounding race issues in America and specifically the Black Lives Matter movement   Along the way Steve, who is an African-American educator from Colorado, also shares how his Christian faith has shaped him not only in his approach to race relations but in all areas of his life's journey.

Go Beyond the Pale with Steve Bowens

Episode Index

1:35 - Intro with Steve & Tammy

12:24 - Conversation with Steve Bowens begins

18:35 - Steve shares his Christian faith journey

27:10 - When the church gets partisan

35:24 - Discussing Black Lives Matter

50:00 - Positive ways forward in race relations

Nov 14, 2020

Dave Griffiths and Rob Grayson return to Beyond the Pale to discuss what a healthy deconstruction and eventual reconstruction in faith might look like.  Along the way we discuss Creeds, politics, racism, gender inequality, and why Christianity seems the one area where its OK to NOT grow up!

Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Rob Grayson & Dave Griffiths!

Episode Index:

1:20-  Introduction with Steve & Tammy

5:25- Conversation begins

12:05- Race & Gender in 2020

14:46- Defining modernity and “post”- modernity

22:59- Do Creeds create a static world view?

33:45- Detaching our faith from politics

45:38- Is what you believe proven by how you live?

1:02:00- When Christians learn to grow up

Oct 2, 2020

My brother Andrew returns during a hot elections season to talk about the two subjects you aren't suppose to talk about in polite conversation; politics and religion. 

Along the way we discuss abortion, nationalism, and spell Trump holds over many American Christians.

Get Ready To Go Beyond The Pale with Andrew Hackman!

Sep 13, 2020

Steve was interviewed on Hong Kong's Radio 3 "Morning Brew" show to discuss his 1,100 mile Via Francigena pilgrimage and the upcoming memoir chronicling the journey!  

Aug 14, 2020

Actor Jason Tobin who stars in the hit TV show Warrior sits down with Steve & Tammy to share his acting journey; the highs, the lows, the frustrations, the lucky breaks, and the perseverance that helped get him to where he is now.

Along the way Jason shares what it was like to grow up in Hong Kong, the power of a teacher to inspire, his love of Story, and even our mutual desire to see Hong Kong's airport renamed Bruce Lee International.

Go Beyond the Pale with Jason Tobin!


Episode Index:

8:14: Conversation with Jason begins

8:36- Stories from the set of the TV series Warrior

26:40: The Bruce Lee connection to Warrior

28:18: Working with The Fast & The Furious director Justin Lin

32:29: Growing up in Hong Kong

34:12- The power of an inspiring teacher

39:12- Moving to Los Angeles at 18

44:00- Starting at the bottom: Being an "Extra"

52:52- When your dreams imprison you

54:30- Love of martial arts

1:00:50- Becoming a filmmaker

1:12:13- Jason's belief in the power of story


Jul 22, 2020

Long time friend Kit Tso shares a meal with Steve & Tammy and with the help of a little Scotch and Irish whiskey discuss faith, humanity, God, and the advantages of bringing "reason" into one's spiritual journey.

Along the way Kit shares some funny anecdotes of riding a motorcycle from London to Belfast!

Go Beyond the Pale with Kit Tso!

Episode Index:

3:40 Conversation with Kit starts

11:32  Driving a motorcycle to Belfast

25:04  What do we really believe?

38:46 Processing Faith

43:00  Circular or linear spiritual path?

53:00 Applying reason in faith

1:00:20  Connecting faith to real life

Jul 1, 2020

Gary Brightman is a Hong Kong based writer and filmmaker who shares his story of turning some of the dreams into realities. Dreams like moving to Hong Kong, attending film school, making documentaries, and finally opening Vibe, the coolest used book and vinyl record store in the city.

Go Beyond the Pale with Gary Brightman!

Episode Index:

1:33- (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss staycation in Hong Kong

8:28- Conversation with Gary Brightman begins

15:00- Gary is “bit” by the Hong Kong bug

19:42- Paying the bills vs. following your dream

21:08 - Going to film school

28:56- Opening a book and music store

31:02- “Vibe” as a community space

Jun 13, 2020

Vernon Pitout is an entrepreneur and business coach who has been a friend of Steve & Tammy for many years. On today's episode they reminisce on their spiritual journeys, discuss the pros and cons of leaders with a vision, and explore some of the challenges the church faces in the 21st century.

Go Beyond the Pale with Vernon Pitout!

Episode Index:

1:30- (Intro) Steve & Tammy reminisce over the church they started 25 years ago as well as how to deal with the crazy of a polarised world.

21:24- Conversation with Vernon begins

24:48- Doing Good in Church but questions arise

35:38- Thoughts on Worship

43:16- God deals with everyone individually

50:53- Understanding real Freedom

1:04:04- The Pros and Cons of Visionary Leadership


May 12, 2020

Lori Marty has had a long journey. Growing up in a Pentecostal home she went on to become a missionary to Pakistan and eventually a Vice President at Word Entertainment, one of the largest Christian music companies in the world. However it was these experiences, along with others she shares that forced her to seriously re-examine her faith. In the process she traded her "certainty" in for "ambiguity" and has become much happier and content in the process.

Go Beyond the Pale with Lori Marty!

Episode Index:

1:50- (Intro) Tammy discusses dealing with depression and mood

17:57- Conversation with Lori begins

19:18- Decluttering house

25:28- Evangelicalism: Weird…but Safe

29:14- How Lori inspired Steve to become a missionary

32:49- Experimenting with Calvinism

39:51- Positive Church community

47:23- Being taught not to trust non-Christian “experts”

50:50- Loving family who love Trump

56:52- Being a Vice President at Word Music

59:54- Why working with Christians can make you question Christianity

Apr 14, 2020

Kevin Miller is a screenwriter and filmmaker whose works encompass a number of documentaries including "Expelled" with Ben Stein and the film "Hellbound" which examined various Christian perspectives on the notions of hell. On today’s episode Kevin shares with Steve & Tammy about his faith Journey as well as his newly released documentary J.E.S.U.S.A which examines the roots of Christianity's age old alliance with nationalism, violence , and Empire.

Go Beyond the Pale with Kevin Miller!

Episode Index

1:42- (Intro with Steve & Tammy)

10:23- Kevin shares his faith journey background

20:47- How Kevin got into filmmaking

28:26- “Hellbound” and what’s the point of the Gospel with no hell

36:17- Kevin’s new film J.E.S.U.S.A. reminds Steve why he is still a Christian

47:23- Christian non-violence and the problems it presents

1:01:54 - Christianity’s entanglement with Empire from Constantine to America





Mar 24, 2020

Alia Eyres holds a Juris Doctorate from the Georgetown University Law Centre and a Bachelor of Arts in International Affairs from the George Washington University, where she was also a member of the NCAA Division 1 Women’s Rowing Team. She shares with Steve & Tammy her journey that led her out of the world of corporate law to become the director of Mother's Choice, a Hong Kong based charity bringing hope and new stories to vulnerable teenage mothers and families across the city.

Along the way Alia shares about the racism she encountered growing up as a “mixed race” child, how kindness and hospitality were instilled in her by her parents, as well as how her faith in Christ has sustained her through life’s challenges.

Go Beyond the Pale with Alia Eyres!

Episode Index:

:35 (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss the effects of the COVID-19 virus

15:27- Conversation with Alia Eyres begins

21:51- Mother’s Choice

23:17- Coming from a mixed race, faith, culture family

30:02- Learning Hospitality, Generosity, and Kindness from a young age

40:45- Leaving law to lead Mother’s Choice

47:57- Alia learns that God is better than she ever thought possible

Mar 7, 2020

Sara Morano is a world traveller and ultra marathoner who just happened to run into Steve on the 1,100 mile Via Francigena pilgrimage from Canterbury to Rome. Sara shares her journey on the ancient pilgrimage as well as the stories of reaching the top of the Alps with Steve.

Along the way she shares about training as an ultra marathoner!

Go Beyond the Pale with Sara Morano

Episode Index:

1:11 - (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss the Via Francigena, the Coronavirus, and spiritual deconstruction

26:29- Conversation with Sara begins

29:29- Running the Comrades Marathon in South Africa

37:06- Making room reservations on the Via Francigena

42:25- Sara reaches the top of the Alps with Steve

54:05- Miracles on the Via Francigena

Jan 26, 2020

South China Morning Post and RTHK film critic James Marsh sits down with Steve for our annual Oscar predictions show. That's right we take a short break from our usual show format questioning Life, the Universe, and Everything (whose answer we all know is "42") to discuss the best films and performances of 2019.  James will give his predictions on who will be taking home the gold at the 2020 Academy Awards as well as some thoughts on those that got snubbed along the way.

Go Beyond the Pale with James Marsh!

Episode Index:

5:06- Predict Best Supporting Actor

Tom Hanks, "A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood"
Anthony Hopkins, "The Two Popes"
Al Pacino, "The Irishman"
Joe Pesci, "The Irishman"
Brad Pitt, "Once Upon a Hollywood"

20:06 Predict Best Supporting Actress

Kathy Bates, "Richard Jewell"
Laura Dern, "Marriage Story"
Scarlett Johansson, "Jojo Rabbit"
Florence Pugh, "Little Women"
Margot Robbie, "Bombshell"

36:34- Predict Best Actress

Cynthia Erivo, "Harriet"
Scarlett Johansson, "Marriage Story"
Saoirse Ronan, "Little Women"
Renée Zellweger, "Judy"
Charlize Theron, "Bombshell"

44:02- Predict Best Actor

Antonio Banderas, "Pain and Glory"
Leonardo DiCaprio, "Once Upon a Hollywood"
Adam Driver, "Marriage Story"
Joaquin Phoenix, "Joker"
Jonathan Pryce, "The Two Popes"

59:24- Predict Best Director

Martin Scorsese, "The Irishman"
Quentin Tarantino, "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood"
Bong Joon-ho, "Parasite"
Sam Mendes, "1917"
Todd Phillips, "Joker"

1:17:21- Predict Best Picture

"Ford v Ferrari"
"The Irishman"
"Jojo Rabbit"
"Little Women"
"Once Upon a Hollywood"
"Marriage Story"

Jan 19, 2020

We start 2020 unplugged! Thats right, no guest, no interview...just Steve & Tammy talking about what they are hoping to do holistically, fiscally, and all around emotionally for the new year...and the new decade! Along the way we discuss minimalism, healthy eating, and yes, even Tiny Houses!

Go Beyond the Pale in 2020 with Steve & Tammy!

Dec 24, 2019

In this special holiday bonus episode of Beyond the Pale Steve journeys to the land of Israel and interviews some of his International travel companions about highlight experiences from their time in the Holy Land.

Go Beyond the Pale in Israel!

Episode Index:

00:17- Steve (USA)

6:46- Danny (Israel)

15:01- Ryan (UK)

19:30- Christina (UK)

25:19- Georgina (New Zealand)

27: 58- Kaze (Hong Kong)


1 2 3 4 5 6 Next »